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    • CommentAuthorblankshield
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2009 edited
     
    So there's a discussion going on over at Story Games about "storyboarding" and is it good or bad or whatever. I don't really want to drag that discussion over here, but the thing that kept popping into my head while reading is that this seems to be a really common thing for jeep/structured freeform.

    For the purposes of this thread, let's call storyboarding "outlining the scene, including it's likely endpoint, before playing it."

    It seems to me that it's a technique, just like a gazillion others, and it has things it's good for, and things it's not. The thing that it draws out in my mind is that as a technique, it strongly supports "how?" or "why?" play, which are very jeep. It sucks for "what?" play, which is very story games.


    James
    (Also, "Hi!". I've finally gotten around to checking this out, despite being invited to way back when it was first opened.)
    • CommentAuthoremilycare
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2009
     
    Hi James! Lovely to see you here.

    This question does seem suited to discussions of jeep. Happy Ends and Doubt both have pretty strongly mapped out stories. Though in Doubt it's the broad flow, and what is decided for the individual scenes is just the cast and location. In Happy Ends the whole story is there. The players pick moments they want to focus on. The things they are bringing to it though, are the take of each character: is the lead character sympathetic as she pretends to be the poor old lady with alzheimer's daughter? Is she pathetic? And of course, the direction to find the happy moments gives the players something to reach for as well. Do these map to "how" and "why"?

    It comes up in scenario play too. Montsegur seems to have a very good balance between set events and player choice.
    • CommentAuthortimfire
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2009
     
    Posted By: blankshieldlet's call storyboarding "outlining the scene, including it's likely endpoint, before playing it."

    Like I said in (one of the on-going) Story-Games thread(s), I don't believe the issue is that simple. IMO, it's very significant *what exactly* is being outlined, and towards what end.

    In most examples of "outlining" that I'm aware of---which admittedly isn't saying much---the outline is used to simply set up a situation for play. If I say, "in this scene the two lovers meet, and it should end with some sort of hint that they are falling in love," that's not saying what's going to happen in the scene. In other words, in that sort of play the end of the scene isn't important, it's all the interactions in the middle that's important. The players are still creating the actual story, they're just following a preset dramatic arch.

    This is like a chord progression in a jazz song. The structure ensures there's some sort of musical movement, but it doesn't outline what the actual melody/harmony/etc is going to be.

    The storyboard issue---as I understand the phenomenon---is different. In those cases, the players are actually outlining the dramatic events that are meant to be important. So when they sit down to play the scene or whatever, they're no longer actually creating a story, they're just coloring or detailing the (psuedo-) script.

    Now, how does various Jeep games fit into this? From Emily's description, it sounds like Doubt is more of the former. But what about Happy Ends? Do you feel it's more like the former (chord progression) or the latter (storyboarding)?
  1.  
    Heya,

    Like I say, I'm really not interested in dragging that fight over here. I probably shouldn't have brought it up. :/

    Tim, as far as I'm concerned, storyboarding as I've outlined it, and storyboarding as you've outlined it are exactly the same technique, just 'done well' vs 'done badly'.


    James
    • CommentAuthoremilycare
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    You never know what will actually happen when you play something out. The plans are just guesses.
    • CommentAuthoremilycare
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2009
     
    I think I'd divide some games from others by how complete the known events are. Under my Skin has a very general arc: people flirt, original couples deal, temptation strikes, etc. Doubt has some very specific scripted events (the play within a play has events that always occur), and other loose scenes with standard elements. There have been common themes in the games of Doubt I've been involved in, but all have been very unique in their expression and events.

    Happy Ends takes it one more step: there is a fully written story with all or most events well detailed. The events I've seen played out have had more similarity, but still have been unique. The point of that game, though, is to bring the players to play happy scenes in an engaging way. So playing the same events is okay. It's the tone, or the experience that is the goal.

    This is all very different from how resolution based games usually function. Though there are mini-mapped out moments often in play: in PtA, once you've played cards, then someone narrates how the stakes get resolved. A short arc of known play, fleshed out to become real.
    • CommentAuthorgreatwolf
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2009
     
    Posted By: emilycareThis is all very different from how resolution based games usually function. Though there are mini-mapped out moments often in play: in PtA, once you've played cards, then someone narrates how the stakes get resolved. A short arc of known play, fleshed out to become real.


    Or the result of Polaris key phrase conflicts.

    Seth
    • CommentAuthoremilycare
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2009
     
    The biggest difference seems to be how you look at it. Sometimes you have a story that will be played out and everybody knows that and buys into playing it out, or seeing what spin the group brings to those events. In some games one person knows a bit more than the rest--I'm thinking of gm'd scenarios where there are scheduled events and threats that the players will encounter: schedule either in space or time. The nice thing about having everyone on board is that it opens the play up to everyone's imagination. Knowing that Christmas dinner is coming up in Flower for Mara, gives you something to look forward to: maybe your character will finally bring home their gay lover to the family.