No, I think it'd be great! If it turns out to be too trippy we can adjust or remove it from the lineup, but I have a strong feeling that people will just take to this stuff if it is presented clearly.

BRING ON THE MOLAR NAVY!

So, like, what if this game were "simply" a warm-up exercise? You have the event (Princess Eterna's death) which happened off-stage. Then, you can just have a few people sitting around, talking about how the experience affected them. Yeah, it might be boring by itself, but it then primes the pump for the rest of the games, especially if you introduce the various superheros from the rest of the game at this time. Like, you could give out some of the roles from "The Super-Sad Death of Louse Lad" now, to give those characters some spotlight time now. Alternately, the workshop could craft some superhero concepts which would then be introduced in this game and then used in the other games.

Seth

Posted By: Jason MWith that in mind, I'm reluctant to make the initial game be anything but a stand-alone exercise with some specific topic - in this case, probably fate play.

Okay. Hmm. In that case, could you illuminate the specifics of fateplay that you'd like to see in the game? I've read our definition, but I'm still a little hazy on the concept.

So, for instance, would you need more than the death of Princess Eterna for the game to demonstrate fateplay? Like, 2 scenes Before her death, 2 scenes During her death, and 2 scenes After her death. Or would the specific characters need little slices of fate to work with?

Seth

Fateplay is mostly just having certain events happen at a given time in play. Say, if you were running the Hamlet larp, you'd know that at a certain time Hamlet would kill Polonius. I think there is a lot of overlap between scenarios with pre-written scenes and fate play. One might be a subset of the other?

We have a few events that would make good "Fate Moments": the Molars invade, Eterna dies. We could add a couple more to give more flavor: Eterna leads the Royal forces against the overwhelming onslaught of the Molars, Eterna decides to negotiate peace, the assassination.

Sitting/standing play could be good. What would the different positions indicate? We are also doing Pillow Talk too, so that might be enough.

What I'm wondering is, when we do the interstitial scenes, what are they about? Do we give the characters relationships with Eterna? Is that enough?

Yeah, I think that Pillow Talk + Fateplay would be sufficient. Just establish your waypoints and then play a scene associated with the waypoint. So, like this:

Waypoint: The Molars Invade Earth!
Scene: after a long and difficult battle against a Molar landing team
Waypoint: Princess Eterna leads the Immortals against the Moleship!
Scene: guarding the rear for Princess Eterna
Waypoint: Princess Eterna is slain by her lover, who was a Mole in her own team!
Scene: morale is shattered among Earth's defenders
Waypoint: The Molars Suddenly Leave!

...and what happens now?...

There's a story by itself in just the waypoints. It's a hackneyed story, inspired by Warhammer 40,000 and a really bad pun, but there you go. It also demonstrates my generally dark approach to stories, but we'll leave that aside for further psychoanalysis.

This would work fine as a stand-alone game. It's a simple exercise, but it does also include the basic fact of "getting up in front of people and making stuff up within limits". So, in some ways, this might be the easiest game to play, which would be good as the introduction to a workshop. The fact that it ends on a cliff-hanger is purely intentional.

Thoughts? Reactions? Am I missing anything? Did I actually just design a game here in the forum? Oh dear.

Seth

That's great, Seth! As for what happens now--if we use this as the opener for the Super Hero cycle game, then we switch up into the small groups with the short games. The fact that the last scene is the breaking of morale on Earth would be perfect for that: we are setting ourselves up for the super heros' careers and lives to start taking dives at that point. And the defenders of Earth being all the various and sundry heros--and maybe even villains too--is right on.

I say Go with it!

Ooh. How about "the betrayal of..." Like, Princess Eterna betrayed the Immortals to the Molars, leaving Earth without its greatest heroes.

Seth

Sure. Okay, I'll write this up fully and post it for further feedback.

Seth

Thanks, so much, Seth!! You are the best. :)

I had some ideas about player involvement. The game is meant to allow a group of experienced players model how to do this stuff to some less experienced players. But we want to get everyone involved. Some suggestions:

1) Have the experienced players play the scenes, with suggestions from the "audience" players. Let the new folks jump in after they've seen a scene or two.

2) I know Pillow Talk is Better than sex and all--but we have a golded opportunity here to get everyone in play for a few moments. I'm thinking of the Civil War re-enactment scenes we had in the Upgrade at Dreamation 2 years ago. The big action scenes that would be so fun to play out in a brief snippet: the Molar landing: the audience players play the hordes of moles shlumping out of spaceships, attacking the heroes; Eterna leads the attack: the group plays the soldiers that Eterna leads screaming into the fray; the disgrace: the group play an angry mob, hurling insults at her and the heroes who fought by her side. The snippet would end before any action is resolved, really just be jumping in to play and then out. It would be very energizing to the group, even if all we did was just one at the start of play.

What if you structured this so that there was a physical moment, ending the second a word was uttered? So that choosing the word that is going to frame that scene is really important. Ex: The two sides face off, Eterna and the mole king circle warily, ready to strike, then Eterna cries "Father!", everybody holds a brief freeze, then scrambles to re-form in a new scene.

Yeah, I'm not sure that I want to go for a full-company scene. That's probably just my stylistics, though.

However, I am working on the game making a transition from experienced players to newer players, mirroring the fall of the Immortals. So, the idea is that the early scenes are played by experienced players, then we phase in new players, then the last scenes are run purely with new players.

I'm scribbling now....

Seth

Excellent. The loose standard - a couple of pages of instruction, no more than an hour of play time, focus on one or two techniques. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Playing the Game

The game is played as a series of Scenes, interspersed with narrative Interludes.

Scene: All's quiet on the home front (2 Immortals, no P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Interlude: The Molar Invasion Begins
Scene: A Hard-Fought Battle (2 Immortals, 2 P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Scene: "We are losing" (2 Immortals, 2 P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Interlude: A Desperate Plan
Scene: "Be prepared for anything" (2 Immortals, 2 P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Interlude: A Vile Betrayal
Scene: The Blood of Heroes (1 Immortal, 2 P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Scene: Surrounded (0 Immortals, all P.A.T.R.O.L.)
Interlude: A Sudden Reversal
Scene: "So what happens now?" (0 Immortals, all P.A.T.R.O.L.)


How to Play a Scene

Most of the game is played in Scenes.

There are some rules that affect what exactly you make up in a Scene. These rules exist to help everyone work together creatively to craft an enjoyable story. So cooperate with them, and see what happens.

First, each Scene has a name. This may look like it means something, but it is simply a creative prompt. Pretend that the scene list is the chapter list from the DVD of this story. What sort of scene would go with that title?

Second, each Scene tells how many players from each team are in the Scene. So, at the beginning of the Scene, decide which characters will be in the Scene. Some of these characters may choose to enter the scene after it begins. If there are more than two superheroes from P.A.T.R.O.L., the Immortals should be sure to mix up the different P.A.T.R.O.L. players to make sure that everyone has a chance to play.

During a Scene, you play make-believe. If you're in the Scene, then you jump into the play area and act out your character. Don't forget that you know much of what is going to happen in the story, so feel free to foreshadow or be ironic. If you know the future, you may as well have some fun with it. Remember: be entertaining, but don't be dumb.

When playing a Scene, remember that it's more interesting to play out the consequences of action instead of the action itself. This is particularly true of the Interludes, which are never actually played out. So, don't play out a fight with Molar soldiers. Instead, play out the aftermath of the fight.

The Immortal players are ultimately responsible to make sure that each Scene is set up and plays smoothly. Don't be afraid to pause a scene to coordinate creative vision or to do a scene over if it wasn't very good.


How to Play an Interlude

During an Interlude, someone reads the appropriate text. Even better, have someone in the audience read the appropriate text. Be as overly dramatic as possible. After all, this is a superhero melodrama.

The Molar Invasion Begins: "But little did they know that danger was already headed their way. Far above the surface of the planet, a spaceship flashed into existence, blotting out the sun. Landing pods detached from its side and fell towards the planet. The Molar invasion had begun!"

A Desperate Plan: "Princess Eterna flew above the battlefield, trying to plan . It was obvious to her that only one course remained to the last defenders of Earth. They must take the fight to the enemy. Quickly, she gathered the other Immortals and prepared for their assault."

A Vile Betrayal: "At last the Immortals gained access to the bridge of the Moleship. Before them stood the Mole King, squat and hideous, dressed in his powered armor and surrounded by his most elite warriors. But then, Princess Eterna went to him, embracing him and passionately kissing him. It was a trap! Princess Eterna had betrayed Earth to her love, the Mole King! The other Immortals turned to flee. But it was too late. Led by the Mole King and Princess Eterna, the Mole soldiers attacked."

A Sudden Reversal: "But as the beleaguered defenders of Earth looked to the sky, they saw something strange. The Mole People were retreating! Their shuttles flew back to the Moleship, which jumped into the inky blackness of space. Earth was left in peace."


A Word to the Immortals

Immortal players, do you see how you're not actually in the last two scenes? That's on purpose. The whole point of this game is to teach the other players how to play these games of ours, right? So, this game actually phases you out of the game. Work with this feature of the game. Loosen your control on the game as it progresses and, if at all possible, try to let the P.A.T.R.O.L. players put the last couple of scenes together themselves. You'll still be around to help, but maybe they will have learned enough by that point to try it themselves.

Posted By: Jason MSo, scenes - are you thinking that the players actually act out "a hard fought battle" for example? That's going to be the natural impulse, approaching this without any other background or techniques.

Doh! I forgot to write in the Pillow Talk rules. Uh, pretend that they are there until I edit them in. :-) Actually, I'll need to figure out if that needs an explicit rule or if I need to rephrase the scene names (e.g. "After a Hard-Fought Battle"). Any thoughts?

Seth

I'd do both - talk about pillow talk and structure the phrases to support that.

Posted By: Jason MI'd do both - talk about pillow talk and structure the phrases to support that.

Okay, I'll make those changes.

Posted By: emilycareOne thought, are we amassing too many super heros in the full set of games? Will that be confusing?

Yes. I actually think that it would be cool to share superheroes across games and such. I stole P.A.T.R.O.L. from Jason already, but I'd be quite happy to roll in superheroes from other games into this one. I didn't do more, mostly to avoid stepping on the other designers. So, yeah, let's mash them up.

Seth

Posted By: Jason MI'll continue to beat the drum for a small, unified set with lots and lots of room for people to author their own. I can redesign the Exit Interview sheet to make Team a fill in the blank if you guys think that's the way to go. Seems to me that every bit the participants author themselves is a little piece of commitment to the premise and the overall exercise.

Hey, I started a new thread to talk about this. Because, yeah, we should all agree on this.

Seth

Okay, I'm going to look this over one more time. I *might* even be able to playtest this over the weekend. After that, though, I'll need someone else to lay this out. That is definitely not my gift.

Seth

So Emily and I discussed this a bit. She's free to correct me, but I think we both felt Princess Eterna demonstrates too little for the amount of time it would currently take to play. We came up with a few ideas and major structural changes to make the game a little shorter and better able to fit into a more general slot.

The biggest change is structural. Instead of 7 individual scenes with characters talking about what just happened, it is just one long scene featuring heroes who don't get called when something big happens. These heroes get occasional updates from the battlefield (the interludes), and this news powers their conversations. Further, the heroes are defined by their relationship to the Immortals (who never appear). The definitions can be things like:
1) I want to go to the Big Battle because...
2) I think the Immortals are saps because..
3) I've always had a crush on the immortals because
4) I despise the Immortals because . . .

Also, there can only be 4 heroes in the scene at any time. When a hero come to report from outside the immediate area, another hero has to leave.

Emily might be able to expand on this, but do these seem like helpful changes to making Eterna a shorter, punchier game?

My main concern about making Eterna the overarching game is that it will be hard to untangle the causality of the groups playing the other games after they split up, thus my goal with these suggestions are towards making it a shorter game that will play better as a fellow to the other shortform games.

Remi and Emily,

Your changes look good. And yeah, I think that having just one question per player would be good, plus the "My power is..." question.

Posted By: RemiAlso, there can only be 4 heroes in the scene at any time. When a hero come to report from outside the immediate area, another hero has to leave.

To pile onto this, I'd say that the scene starts with the four heroes, and that the news items must always be brought by a new hero. That way the players will continue to cycle through the scene.

Seth